Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Isaac Middle's avatar

I forgot my main point: in practical terms, the Tropical vs Sidereal debate acts a distraction from a deeper mutual understanding of the Archetypes of the Planets, both in Aspect and in their location in the visible sky (or invisible as the case might be, below the horizon). So yes, there is a discussion to be had there, but imo it is far from one of the most important Astrology conversations to be having.

Expand full comment
Isaac Middle's avatar

Hi Josh, thanks for this: I have worked through a lot of these questions myself.

My main comment would be that I think you are getting too tied up in the use of specific words: for example the word "Season", which I think is a logical starting point when trying to explain the rationale behind the Tropical Zodiac (I usually use "Seasons/Equinoxes" as short hand).

Tropical Astrologers themselves will very often try to explain the Tropical system in terms of the seasons, arguing that the current stage the Sun is at in its cycle directly informs the Archetype of the Tropical Sign. Why is Aries like Aries? In the northern hemisphere, because it is the start of Spring: we are rising, we are becoming activated, we are initiating, we are felling new sources of energy leading us forward boldly and courageously.

I don't agree with Athen on everything, but I think you are being too harsh overall. He identifies Ptolemy as the person considered most responsible for tying the Zodiac to the passage of the Sun rather than the visible sky. To narrow this down to the word "Season" seems a logical and appropriate starting point to then understand the Tropical System in more detail. His 13 Sign model is great as a True Sidereal starting point, and the resources and software he offers (mostly for free) are excellent.

Having said all that, I disagree with the methods of a lot of True Sidereal Astrologers (Athen is the only one I still follow). True Sidereal should practice at the level of fixed stars not constellations, which is why I use the Nakshatras (I am not a "Constellational Astrologer" in other words). You can't just straight swap the Archetype of a Sign and apply it to that Constellation, as they clearly aren't the same thing. Mars also isn't the ruler of the Aries Constellation: Rulerships, Exaltations, Detriments etc are Tropical concepts not applicable (imo) to Sidereal.

Also, yes: the term "actual sky" is unfortunate. I would suggest "visible" sky, in that the essence of Astrology lies in direct observation of the Planets and Fixed Stars around the Ecliptic, is more appropriate.

Expand full comment
1 more comment...

No posts